<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: 2008 Sunstone West Symposium: Mormonism and the Christian Tradition, Theology as Interfaith Dialogue, Creativity and Novelty in Mormon Studies</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mormonphilosophyandtheology.wordpress.com/2008/04/11/2008-sunstone-west-symposium-mormonism-and-the-christian-tradition-theology-as-interfaith-dialogue-creativity-and-novelty-in-mormon-studies/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mormonphilosophyandtheology.wordpress.com/2008/04/11/2008-sunstone-west-symposium-mormonism-and-the-christian-tradition-theology-as-interfaith-dialogue-creativity-and-novelty-in-mormon-studies/</link>
	<description>Explorations in Mormon Thought</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 18:15:23 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: A Free Spirit</title>
		<link>http://mormonphilosophyandtheology.wordpress.com/2008/04/11/2008-sunstone-west-symposium-mormonism-and-the-christian-tradition-theology-as-interfaith-dialogue-creativity-and-novelty-in-mormon-studies/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>A Free Spirit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 18:15:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonphilosophyandtheology.wordpress.com/?p=4#comment-30</guid>
		<description>I suppose the question might involve how two parties can learn to disagree.  I must admit the rigidity sanctioned under the rubric of religion would not be acceptable in other domains.  Perhaps this means there is a larger problem...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose the question might involve how two parties can learn to disagree.  I must admit the rigidity sanctioned under the rubric of religion would not be acceptable in other domains.  Perhaps this means there is a larger problem&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: aquinas</title>
		<link>http://mormonphilosophyandtheology.wordpress.com/2008/04/11/2008-sunstone-west-symposium-mormonism-and-the-christian-tradition-theology-as-interfaith-dialogue-creativity-and-novelty-in-mormon-studies/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>aquinas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonphilosophyandtheology.wordpress.com/?p=4#comment-10</guid>
		<description>I appreciate the feedback.  Apologetics does have value so I don&#039;t mean to suggest apologetics as an enterprise has no place.  However, generally speaking, I find apologetics to be inherently in-house communication, rather than directed towards one&#039;s out-group.  Though it may even seem to be directed towards those outside of one&#039;s faith tradition, it rarely has any effect on that group.  One may point to the various debates often engaged in by apologists.  However, these debates are spectacle and serve to strengthen the convictions of adherents whose beliefs are being attacked.  The rebuttal however is often unconvincing and unpersuasive to those on the outside.  In other words, critics may be answered for the sake of adherents but not for the sake of winning over someone outside the tradition, or in helping others to more accurately understand the faith.  There are exceptions to this general characterization, but I find they are few and far between.  One of the challenges of dialogue is that groups have been locked in an apologetic mode for so long that they lack the tools and a proper paradigm to effectively engage with other faith traditions, should they choose to do so.  It really requires a new paradigm.

I look forward to the book you mention.  You are quite right to point out that while early Latter-day Saints may employ the term &#039;theology&#039; they may do so in ways different from how it is historically used in the Christian tradition.  This is why I believe including a functional analysis would be useful.  In other words, one should look beyond the terms employed and look at the function of the writings or the reasoning behind it.  Indeed, this may be a good example where Latter-day Saints interested these issues would benefit from a larger discussion about theology and systematic theology proper, especially if they have had little exposure to historical treatments of Christian theology, and the critiques of these approaches by Christians themselves, so that we might be on the same page when discussing strengths and drawbacks of a particular theological endeavor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate the feedback.  Apologetics does have value so I don&#8217;t mean to suggest apologetics as an enterprise has no place.  However, generally speaking, I find apologetics to be inherently in-house communication, rather than directed towards one&#8217;s out-group.  Though it may even seem to be directed towards those outside of one&#8217;s faith tradition, it rarely has any effect on that group.  One may point to the various debates often engaged in by apologists.  However, these debates are spectacle and serve to strengthen the convictions of adherents whose beliefs are being attacked.  The rebuttal however is often unconvincing and unpersuasive to those on the outside.  In other words, critics may be answered for the sake of adherents but not for the sake of winning over someone outside the tradition, or in helping others to more accurately understand the faith.  There are exceptions to this general characterization, but I find they are few and far between.  One of the challenges of dialogue is that groups have been locked in an apologetic mode for so long that they lack the tools and a proper paradigm to effectively engage with other faith traditions, should they choose to do so.  It really requires a new paradigm.</p>
<p>I look forward to the book you mention.  You are quite right to point out that while early Latter-day Saints may employ the term &#8216;theology&#8217; they may do so in ways different from how it is historically used in the Christian tradition.  This is why I believe including a functional analysis would be useful.  In other words, one should look beyond the terms employed and look at the function of the writings or the reasoning behind it.  Indeed, this may be a good example where Latter-day Saints interested these issues would benefit from a larger discussion about theology and systematic theology proper, especially if they have had little exposure to historical treatments of Christian theology, and the critiques of these approaches by Christians themselves, so that we might be on the same page when discussing strengths and drawbacks of a particular theological endeavor.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jacobtbaker</title>
		<link>http://mormonphilosophyandtheology.wordpress.com/2008/04/11/2008-sunstone-west-symposium-mormonism-and-the-christian-tradition-theology-as-interfaith-dialogue-creativity-and-novelty-in-mormon-studies/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>jacobtbaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonphilosophyandtheology.wordpress.com/?p=4#comment-7</guid>
		<description>aquinas: 

You made some excellent points. I would further add that, for the most part,  it is not mainstream Christians that attack Mormons for being &quot;atheological&quot; as much as many Mormons themselves proudly self-designate Mormonism as such. This is why I said that in describing our own tradition as atheological we do potential damage to our ability to engage in serious dialogue with the Tradition. I don&#039;t care very much what critics say about Mormonism, as much as I care that I still have the capacity and the tools to dialogue with them, a capacity that I believe is undermined if I must consider my tradition to be strictly atheological. 

I agree with you that the Apologists often do not engage in real dialogue and instead often resort to the same polemical attacks as critics of Mormonism. However, I do think that every tradition needs Apologetics, if for nothing else than to combat the tyranny of onesidedness that exists when critics go unanswered. However, apologetics, when properly employed, should be a tool of those engaged in dialogue in order to correct misinformation or misrepresentation, not a movement unto itself that monolithically seeks to defend the tradition purely for the sake of defense. If a group becomes defined solely as Apologist then by definition true dialogue is not possible. 

This question of the place of theology in Mormonism is one that will be treated in a book I am editing (see the About the Author link on this site&#039;s homepage). It&#039;s a fascinating and difficult question that deserves more attention. You are right that early Mormonisms had no problem employing the term &#039;theology&#039; in their rhetoric, but I wonder if they also did not mean something somewhat different than what theology means in the Christian Tradition. Now, as a professor of mine, Brian Birch, has pointed out, the word &quot;theology&quot; is often used in Mormon theological discourse as a rhetorical device for pointing to or discussing &quot;doctrine,&quot; but not in the same way it is traditionally used. I am sympathetic with the view that the way Mormons talk about their religion fits well with post-liberal narrative theologies rather than systematic theology. However, we systematize our doctrine all the time in order to understand it (usually informally). I see nothing wrong with this activity in order to clarify doctrinal issues, but I would also point out that there are many different kinds of systems. I would follow A.N. Whitehead&#039;s &quot;event-based&quot; system as a viable way of &quot;doing&quot; Mormon theology because it is an open system, able to receive novel issues and ideas, rather than a closed and complete system. This would seem to fit more in line with the revelatory theology that Mormons embrace. I should do another post on this later to clarigy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aquinas: </p>
<p>You made some excellent points. I would further add that, for the most part,  it is not mainstream Christians that attack Mormons for being &#8220;atheological&#8221; as much as many Mormons themselves proudly self-designate Mormonism as such. This is why I said that in describing our own tradition as atheological we do potential damage to our ability to engage in serious dialogue with the Tradition. I don&#8217;t care very much what critics say about Mormonism, as much as I care that I still have the capacity and the tools to dialogue with them, a capacity that I believe is undermined if I must consider my tradition to be strictly atheological. </p>
<p>I agree with you that the Apologists often do not engage in real dialogue and instead often resort to the same polemical attacks as critics of Mormonism. However, I do think that every tradition needs Apologetics, if for nothing else than to combat the tyranny of onesidedness that exists when critics go unanswered. However, apologetics, when properly employed, should be a tool of those engaged in dialogue in order to correct misinformation or misrepresentation, not a movement unto itself that monolithically seeks to defend the tradition purely for the sake of defense. If a group becomes defined solely as Apologist then by definition true dialogue is not possible. </p>
<p>This question of the place of theology in Mormonism is one that will be treated in a book I am editing (see the About the Author link on this site&#8217;s homepage). It&#8217;s a fascinating and difficult question that deserves more attention. You are right that early Mormonisms had no problem employing the term &#8216;theology&#8217; in their rhetoric, but I wonder if they also did not mean something somewhat different than what theology means in the Christian Tradition. Now, as a professor of mine, Brian Birch, has pointed out, the word &#8220;theology&#8221; is often used in Mormon theological discourse as a rhetorical device for pointing to or discussing &#8220;doctrine,&#8221; but not in the same way it is traditionally used. I am sympathetic with the view that the way Mormons talk about their religion fits well with post-liberal narrative theologies rather than systematic theology. However, we systematize our doctrine all the time in order to understand it (usually informally). I see nothing wrong with this activity in order to clarify doctrinal issues, but I would also point out that there are many different kinds of systems. I would follow A.N. Whitehead&#8217;s &#8220;event-based&#8221; system as a viable way of &#8220;doing&#8221; Mormon theology because it is an open system, able to receive novel issues and ideas, rather than a closed and complete system. This would seem to fit more in line with the revelatory theology that Mormons embrace. I should do another post on this later to clarigy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: aquinas</title>
		<link>http://mormonphilosophyandtheology.wordpress.com/2008/04/11/2008-sunstone-west-symposium-mormonism-and-the-christian-tradition-theology-as-interfaith-dialogue-creativity-and-novelty-in-mormon-studies/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>aquinas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 04:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonphilosophyandtheology.wordpress.com/?p=4#comment-6</guid>
		<description>I appreciate the response.  One of the difficult things about discussing Mormon theology is that the term &#039;theology&#039; has often been hijacked by parties engaged in apologetics.  &#039;Theology&#039; then becomes a loaded term or a short-hand for describing the religion by advocates and critics in a polemical context.  Critics of Mormonism may claim that Mormonism or Mormons are largely atheological.  This is not a complement, but rather an attempt to show how Mormon teachings are elusive, irrational, hard to pin down, or that Mormons behave differently from regular Christians.  Likewise, some Latter-day Saints who believe that revelation is infinitely superior to theology or speculation take pride in not getting involved with the &#039;philosophies of men&#039; and take pride in being atheological and point out at the early apostles were not trained theologians.  It is hard to tease apart whether these statements are made for the purpose of better describing the tradition proper, or whether they have their impetus in apologetics.  In many cases, it is the latter.  This apologetic orientation isn&#039;t necessarily interested in engaging other faith traditions in dialogue.

What I think needs to happen is that term and surrounding discourse needs to be lifted out of, and taken away from the apologetic environment, and it needs to be reflected on historically, functionally and in engagement with the broader dialogue about theology proper.  Others have pointed out that early Latter-day Saints often spoke of a Theology and made attempts to systematize or organize the doctrines.  James E. Talmage in his Articles of Faith, begins his introduction with definition of theology and writes on the importance of theological study, &quot;The value of theological knowledge, therefore, ought not to be underrated; it is doubtful if its importance can be overestimated.&quot; (1984 ed., p.4).  I&#039;m sure other examples could be offered.

I agree with you that in these discussions, even in apologetic discourse, Latter-day Saint statements about theology do say something important about how they view the faith.  Hopefully we will be able to navigate the various arguments to come to a better understanding of the Mormon tradition, and a move away from apologetic may provide more openness to reflecting on these issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate the response.  One of the difficult things about discussing Mormon theology is that the term &#8216;theology&#8217; has often been hijacked by parties engaged in apologetics.  &#8216;Theology&#8217; then becomes a loaded term or a short-hand for describing the religion by advocates and critics in a polemical context.  Critics of Mormonism may claim that Mormonism or Mormons are largely atheological.  This is not a complement, but rather an attempt to show how Mormon teachings are elusive, irrational, hard to pin down, or that Mormons behave differently from regular Christians.  Likewise, some Latter-day Saints who believe that revelation is infinitely superior to theology or speculation take pride in not getting involved with the &#8216;philosophies of men&#8217; and take pride in being atheological and point out at the early apostles were not trained theologians.  It is hard to tease apart whether these statements are made for the purpose of better describing the tradition proper, or whether they have their impetus in apologetics.  In many cases, it is the latter.  This apologetic orientation isn&#8217;t necessarily interested in engaging other faith traditions in dialogue.</p>
<p>What I think needs to happen is that term and surrounding discourse needs to be lifted out of, and taken away from the apologetic environment, and it needs to be reflected on historically, functionally and in engagement with the broader dialogue about theology proper.  Others have pointed out that early Latter-day Saints often spoke of a Theology and made attempts to systematize or organize the doctrines.  James E. Talmage in his Articles of Faith, begins his introduction with definition of theology and writes on the importance of theological study, &#8220;The value of theological knowledge, therefore, ought not to be underrated; it is doubtful if its importance can be overestimated.&#8221; (1984 ed., p.4).  I&#8217;m sure other examples could be offered.</p>
<p>I agree with you that in these discussions, even in apologetic discourse, Latter-day Saint statements about theology do say something important about how they view the faith.  Hopefully we will be able to navigate the various arguments to come to a better understanding of the Mormon tradition, and a move away from apologetic may provide more openness to reflecting on these issues.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jacobtbaker</title>
		<link>http://mormonphilosophyandtheology.wordpress.com/2008/04/11/2008-sunstone-west-symposium-mormonism-and-the-christian-tradition-theology-as-interfaith-dialogue-creativity-and-novelty-in-mormon-studies/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>jacobtbaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonphilosophyandtheology.wordpress.com/?p=4#comment-4</guid>
		<description>aquinas: 

I obviously agree with you: an understanding of systematic theology could, in my opinion, have extremely beneficial consequences insofar as we increase our capacity to engage in dialogue with the Tradition. I will write more on this in a separate post, but Mormons are already viewed suspiciously, whether in terms of theology or practice. When we start saying that we don&#039;t &quot;do&quot; theology, or our tradition is explicitly atheological, that move combines to set us even further back in trying to dialogue with other faiths. Further, in embracing an atheological view, there is a certain sense that we are in effect asserting that other theologies or ways of reflecting on religious concepts are not valuable to LDS people, that there are no insights derived from formal systematic theology that can enrich me intellecually or religiously. And I think that that is both untrue and and dangerous. 

However, those that reject systematic theologies are saying important things about the ways that Mormons view, practice, and talk about religion. However, that will have to be for another post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aquinas: </p>
<p>I obviously agree with you: an understanding of systematic theology could, in my opinion, have extremely beneficial consequences insofar as we increase our capacity to engage in dialogue with the Tradition. I will write more on this in a separate post, but Mormons are already viewed suspiciously, whether in terms of theology or practice. When we start saying that we don&#8217;t &#8220;do&#8221; theology, or our tradition is explicitly atheological, that move combines to set us even further back in trying to dialogue with other faiths. Further, in embracing an atheological view, there is a certain sense that we are in effect asserting that other theologies or ways of reflecting on religious concepts are not valuable to LDS people, that there are no insights derived from formal systematic theology that can enrich me intellecually or religiously. And I think that that is both untrue and and dangerous. </p>
<p>However, those that reject systematic theologies are saying important things about the ways that Mormons view, practice, and talk about religion. However, that will have to be for another post.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: aquinas</title>
		<link>http://mormonphilosophyandtheology.wordpress.com/2008/04/11/2008-sunstone-west-symposium-mormonism-and-the-christian-tradition-theology-as-interfaith-dialogue-creativity-and-novelty-in-mormon-studies/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>aquinas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 02:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mormonphilosophyandtheology.wordpress.com/?p=4#comment-3</guid>
		<description>Hi Jacob, I appreciate your post and I look forward to learning more about developments in Mormon studies at Claremont.  You might be interested in my blog where I focus directly on interfaith dialogue.

I feel that theology can serve as a form of interreligious communication.  Therefore, some Evangelicals for example, lament that there is no systematic theology in the Church and wish that there were a systematic theology, almost to suggest that true dialogue cannot happen unless Mormonism forms a systematic theology.  There is a tension between the goals of a systematic theology which appeals to the rational mind and a dynamic revelatory religion which allows for possibilities.  I also agree with the observation that there are different ways of &#039;doing theology&#039; and that a &#039;systematic theology&#039; is but one way, but not the only way.  I think this should be explored and I think our understanding could be enhanced with a more historically grounded study of systematic theology along with a comparative study of the extent of systematic theologies in other faiths such as Judaism and Islam.  In fact, the Mormon way of &#039;doing theology&#039; is a area which I think should be explored and may in fact offer a contribution in terms of religious understanding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jacob, I appreciate your post and I look forward to learning more about developments in Mormon studies at Claremont.  You might be interested in my blog where I focus directly on interfaith dialogue.</p>
<p>I feel that theology can serve as a form of interreligious communication.  Therefore, some Evangelicals for example, lament that there is no systematic theology in the Church and wish that there were a systematic theology, almost to suggest that true dialogue cannot happen unless Mormonism forms a systematic theology.  There is a tension between the goals of a systematic theology which appeals to the rational mind and a dynamic revelatory religion which allows for possibilities.  I also agree with the observation that there are different ways of &#8216;doing theology&#8217; and that a &#8217;systematic theology&#8217; is but one way, but not the only way.  I think this should be explored and I think our understanding could be enhanced with a more historically grounded study of systematic theology along with a comparative study of the extent of systematic theologies in other faiths such as Judaism and Islam.  In fact, the Mormon way of &#8216;doing theology&#8217; is a area which I think should be explored and may in fact offer a contribution in terms of religious understanding.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
